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NowIsForever
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« on: March 22, 2007, 07:48:10 AM »

I was lead here by my search for NDE reading material.  It seems that there may be a chance to discuss here ideas related to NDEs.  In particular, I am interested in quantum mechanics and future paradigms for machine computation and their similarity to thought as experienced in the spiritual realms.
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"We have not the reverent feeling for the rainbow that a savage has, because we know how it is made. We have lost as much as we gained by prying into that matter." -- Mark Twain
Thoughtful Living
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2007, 06:43:24 PM »

Don't know much about Quantum theories, maybe you could teach us.

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hewholaughslast
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2007, 06:57:06 PM »

Hello Nowisforever,

It’s a real pity the old board was lost; on it you would find a lot of analysis and deliberations regarding the NDE noticeable fact. Although most ideas do not make sense, as it were, it’s interesting to note that each experience is different with one common denominator…it’s the truth as we know it…

For myself, as a knowledgeable ‘old hand’ in the matter, it’s very difficult to make folks understand this dimension…but I try my best…

As far as I know quantum mechanics is a mathematical machine used for predicting the behaviours of microscopic particles and we do so by using measuring instruments to explore these behaviours…in that capacity it’s very successful in terms of parameters and accuracy…this doesn’t matter in the next dimension…

As far as future paradigms for machine computations or anything similar is concerned…there is not interest shown in the next dimension of tangible objects in the world as we know it…anything man made is obsolete because one is all essence…

The structure is different, the laws are different, that world is invisible to our eyes, you can never deduce to understand that life by applying physical principle and methods…you have to experience it…even then I don’t have the vocabulary to explain it or mankind the wisdom and intellect to understand it…

Don’t make the mistake by trying to understand the NDE by using science to analyze it… until the mindset come to terms with the subject; life beyond can’t be identified with.

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NowIsForever
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« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2007, 11:23:02 AM »

>>Don't know much about Quantum theories, maybe you could teach us.<<    Well, okay and whenever the need arises; however, I'm no expert, although I think I can present any ideas I need to for making a point.  I presume html can be used in these messages to link to other websites.
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"We have not the reverent feeling for the rainbow that a savage has, because we know how it is made. We have lost as much as we gained by prying into that matter." -- Mark Twain
NowIsForever
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« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2007, 12:41:35 PM »

You have summarized QM in a nutshell.  Good.  I think therefore you have the basis for understanding what I would like to say.  (Please excuse the run on paragraph.  I am using my razr cell phone with the opera mini browser to upload these messages.  In the future I'll use a library computer to convey lengthy posts.)  Here's a taste of what I have to offer to support my ideas re the aforementioned connection(s):  I have seen for myself (in the context of an OBE) the extraordinary power of the human mind unfettered by a physical brain.  In the astral realm I came upon a woman mathematician (actually only her head--which was several stories tall) who was spewing mathematical (logical) formulae at an enormous rate and the shock of this woke me up.
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"We have not the reverent feeling for the rainbow that a savage has, because we know how it is made. We have lost as much as we gained by prying into that matter." -- Mark Twain
RideTheWalrus
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« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2007, 03:49:53 PM »

As far as I know quantum mechanics is a mathematical machine used for predicting the behaviours of microscopic particles and we do so by using measuring instruments to explore these behaviours…in that capacity it’s very successful in terms of parameters and accuracy…this doesn’t matter in the next dimension…

At first I was unexcited about quantum mechanics - that was before I discovered some of what they were finding out.

When they shot electrons through two slits, they found the electrons travel in waves of probability, not as solid matter as originally thought.  They know this because they can measure their aftermath and see the wave pattern they leave behind. 

On the other hand the pattern electrons show when they are observed by a person is not a wave pattern, but exactly what you would expect from physical matter.  The simple act of observing electrons changes their behavior!

It seems like matter on that level responds to consciousness.  It's amazing that this stuff isn't shown on the news.

(These links may be a bit crude, but they simplify the concept very well)

http://quantumiscool1.ytmnd.com/

http://quantamiscool2.ytmnd.com/
« Last Edit: September 19, 2007, 04:22:14 PM by RideTheWalrus » Logged
Sam
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« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2007, 08:18:17 PM »

Thanks for contributing. Mind over matter is fact, but I don't think a materialistic science is ready to accept that yet. It is very evident in the placebo effect.

Love

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« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2007, 03:51:00 AM »

Quote
It seems like matter on that level responds to consciousness.  It's amazing that this stuff isn't shown on the news.

I agree - I'd like to know what do materialist scientists like Richard Dawkins have to say about this. Anything?

I read a book by a British physicist a few years ago who said in the last chapter that he realised he had arrived at a position that mystics through the ages had already arrived at - it had just taken him a long time and a different route! But he had gained a new respect for their insights into reality. In a nutshell: You can come at Reality through mysticism or through the new science.

Basically doesn't this come down to the different approaches of the Right Brain versus the Left Brain? Females apparently operate more according to the right brain (intuitive, emotional) and males to the left brain (logical, mathematical). These are tendencies of course - but the point is that Reality is as it is - and we human beings see it from our own limited perspective.   

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Sam
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« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2007, 07:01:07 PM »

I don't like to include the brain in consciousness events because the brain is only an interface to the body. But I believe everyone eventually comes to the spiritual conclusion even if it takes a hundred lifetimes. That is why we are here to learn about who we are. As for Dawkins, as the research piles up in favor of the spiritual nature of mankind, Richard will silently fade away.

Love

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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. -- George Carlin
RideTheWalrus
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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2007, 04:41:33 PM »

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I agree - I'd like to know what do materialist scientists like Richard Dawkins have to say about this. Anything?

I haven't heard any skeptic even talk about quantum physics in a debate, it brings nothing to their side of the argument
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Sam
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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2007, 07:28:42 PM »

That's why they don't talk about it. They don't talk about the near death experience research either.

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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. -- George Carlin
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« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2007, 04:50:01 AM »

They don't talk about the near death experience research either.


Neither do some Christians that I know -  they dont want to discuss NDEs even when it appears to support life after death, even when it changes people's lives. They nevertheless reject NDEs - and actually I think they react like diehard atheists.  ::) 

It does seem there is some denial going on.

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