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EricC
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« on: March 25, 2011, 10:43:22 PM »

When inquiring about the meaning of life, I have heard many in the spiritual community say that 'life is a school'.  We come here to learn lessons.  Etc, etc...

This, to me, does not make sense.  What kind of school requires you to forget everything you learned with every incarnation?  If anybody believes life is a school, could you please explain to me why?
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Sam
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2011, 03:49:58 AM »

Hi EricC

You don't forget everything between incarnations. Spiritual work is emotional work, maturing into a person that makes choices beneficial to themselves and others. Between lives you retain the emotional growth you have accomplished. So yes, the physical life is like a school of opportunity to allow you to make the right decisions in any situation. You are on the path of love, to love yourself and to love all others.

Sam
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. -- George Carlin
EricC
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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2011, 07:37:43 PM »

So, the reason we need to lose our memories then is because if we had our memories, we would make the right decisions, but we would do so on an intellectual level?  Here, we evolve to make the right decisions in the absence of knowledge?  I'll give this some thought.  Thanks for the reply.
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shox
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« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2011, 01:12:27 AM »

Hello all

This is my first post, and I thought I would pick up on this thread, because I have exactly the same question as EricC. How can we be at all responsible for ourselves if we don't know where we came from, don't know why we're here and don't know where we're going. We're basically living in a state of unconsciousness, of sleep. It is NOT possible to have free will if we are so deprived of our greater memories.

And WHAT is God? What is Love? Why should we learn to love? When guardian spirits say we must learn to love, it is ultimately for a purpose beyond this earthly life. But all worlds beyond this one have been blocked off from our senses. So how on earth (literally) could we know? I've heard people say that in the spirit world, no judgement is meted out on you. Instead, with the higher state of conscious which you attain, you judge yourself. But on earth, we do not possess that higher consciousness, therefore we cannot really be accountable for our actions. The environment here, with its ruthless competition, weeds out the weak and compassionate and sends strong messages that the highest virtue is strength and cold, calculating intelligence, and it therefore does NOT foster those spiritual virtues which only NDE'ers become aware of. We live in a dark underworld, just like Plato's cave.

In the course of the evolution of all life, organisms adapt to the complex environment which surrounds them. In fact, simulations have been designed by Artificial Intelligence engineers which predict exactly how organisms will likely respond and evolve in the face of changing environments. Human beings are no different. The environment in which they live will determine what they become and how they choose. So why is it that in the afterlife, we learn to feel ashamed of our choices here on earth, when in fact earthly conditions are such there are no incentives to develop those spiritual qualities to begin with? It's kind of like placing a specimen of fish in the deep ocean and expecting it to evolve wings with which to fly.

I have tons of questions but I just want to begin with this lot.

Sam, EricC, anyone, please share your thoughts. I do not sit content with simplistic answers.

ShoX
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Sam
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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2011, 01:51:40 AM »

You do have a lot of questions, good ones. I will start out by saying we do know who we are and what we are doing here. In fact we are in constant contact with our higher consciousness at all times. Then why do we not understand. The spirit world is a world of unconditional love. Our home is in that world, now in order to know what unconditional love really is we must have "not love" to compare it with and that is why we come into the physical world. Here in the physical there is love and not love, it is a place of duality. We need that duality in order to understand why real love is so precious and important. We come here and get lost in the "not love" and feel we are without hope. But this is not true and we find out what is true by learning to love unconditionally. This opens up the senses to understanding and knowledge of who we are and what we are doing here which is why we came in the first place. We definitely have free will and make hundreds of choices every day. Even not making a choice is a choice. Now if those choices are for love then we grow and learn, if they are not for love then we get nowhere.

Sam
 
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. -- George Carlin
shox
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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2011, 03:13:14 PM »

I'm afraid I still have to say that I do not know who I am and why I am here. If I do know, it must be a very feint kind of knowing, like a vague memory which needs to be rekindled into greater vividness. This kind of knowing does not exert much of an influence in our thoughts and actions. The main reason I take the idea of love more seriously is because people who have briefly crossed over into the afterlife say so. Otherwise I simply would not know, unless I lived though many lives and kept my memory from all of them and learned to perceive some unchanging aspect throughout all of them. In order for any of my knowledge to culminate into wisdom, it must be a broad knowledge from many places, from many times, and altogether spanning a very long time. For one who loves learning, the meaning of life is learning from books and from nature. Anyone who has been brought up in our time will think that the meaning of life is success - fame, money and power. For this reason people unreflectingly attach themselves to their work, and say work is the meaning of life. People will not take keenly to the idea that they must learn to love if the environment they live in fosters a fierce individualism, and if history teaches that might is right.

I wish I too could have an NDE, because I yearn for the perspective of eternity. I would go there prepared with an unending list of questions. I have read many accounts, and FEW of them satisfy my questions. I find it extremely difficult to live without understanding. If someone says to me we must learn something, I have to know why. But this "Why" has been denied to me, as it has to billions of lost souls on this planet. If this Why exists beyond this life, then I desperately want to see that life before committing myself wholeheartedly to an idea. Even the philosopher Socrates uttered some uncertain words to the effect that in such a such a way he had chosen to lead his life, cultivating knowledge, self-control, courage and virtue, and he would soon find out, upon his death, whether he had lived life "correctly." He too, with his tremendous penchant for philosophical clarity, was not entirely certain. It seems to me that none of us know the meaning of life, and the meaning comes to us from the outside.

On another subject, it is becoming more obvious to me that the human species is about to undergo a "bottleneck," i.e. a rapid depopulation after it has overshot the carrying capacity of the planet. The world is grossly overpopulated, and there are too few resources to sustain the current population and its aspirations. Between now and a smaller population sometime in the distant future, there will be untold suffering during the rapid dieoff. If there was ever a time when suicide was justifiable, is it not now? Can an individual not say, to himself and his guardians, that the planet cannot sustain my existence, and therefore, for my own good and for the good of the planet, I have chosen to end this earthly life? What shame or folly is there in this? Why prolong a life which ought never to have been?

As I write this, I observe that the name of this board is "Thoughtful Living." So why not live consciously, thinking things through with great clarity, depth and completeness?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 06:54:43 PM by shox » Logged
Sam
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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2011, 08:23:00 PM »

The main thing about suicide is that it is an attempt to run away from what the person perceives as problems, but the problems lie within the person and wherever he goes the problems go. It is like trying to run away from yourself which is impossible. Your problems will go with you. Now Thoughtful Living is living in a kind and caring manner, considerate of others' feelings and goals.

This is one of those things that you won't know until you know it. If you would know what real love is like then you must live it, and in the living it will be revealed to you. If you say "I will believe when I see" then you will never believe. It is more like "when I believe it, I will see and understand it." That is why this world can seem so hard to some, so hard they want to flee by committing suicide, but it just don't work. You made a committment to come into the physical and you will have to fulfil that committment even if it takes a thousand lifetimes to accomplish.

When you live in love and choose love on a daily basis then you will understand. You will feel better about yourself and the world you live in, helping others is helping yourself. If you are unsure what living in love is then I will post a quote that reveals it.

Quote
"Love is very patient and kind, never jealous or envious, never boastful or proud, never haughty or selfish or rude. Love doesn't demand its own way. It's not irritable or touchy. It doesn't hold grudges and will not notice when others do it wrong. It's never glad about injustice, but rejoices in truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends". -- Saint Paul.

It is not easy, and it takes practice, but the rewards are very great. They include knowledge, wisdom, feeling good about yourself, peace and self-love.

Now the population problem is taking care of itself, China has mandated only one child to a couple, and the western countries are already at zero population gain with some losing population. Mankind is wiser than most people think.

Love
Sam
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. -- George Carlin
lrmcivor
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« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2011, 02:40:47 AM »

Eric & Shox:

Physical life is a very small but important part of our Being.  I was as you are now, in that I did not understand life: Why we are here?; What is this life all about?; Is there anything after this physical life?; Is it just survival of the fittest, evolving as this planet evolves with the meek and weak perishing?

So many questions with no firm answers, just the belief by some that there is an afterlife and possible judgment based on our life’s actions while in the physical world.  This philosophy has helped mankind in his mind face the inevitable that we all as physical Beings will eventually die.

Anyone who has not had a glimpse of what lies beyond (NDE or spiritual awakening) can only imagine what has been told to them by these fortunate few.  Before my “encounter” I had applied the moniker of atheist to myself, not believing in a soul or an afterlife.  I believed we simply were returned to our originating elements when we die, that there was nothing beyond.  It is hard to put into words exactly what it is like on the “other side”, but I will try to give a brief explanation.

The most prominent part of this experience is the unconditional acceptance, love, compassion and the knowledge you are a part of the whole, it is like you are back home, where you came from originally.  The thought of your physical body is of no importance, actually very insignificant as having been a part of who you really are.  Unlike our physical life, there are no feelings of jealousy, envy, hate or want for anything from all the other souls you are with in the realm I have no name for (you may call it Heaven).   All you feel is this overwhelming love within and all around you.  For me it was a feeling I had never experienced my entire lifetime until my NDE.  This love now fills my spirit in the physical world and the emotion of hate is no longer a part of my soul. 

This new found change of soul has completely changed my life and attitude towards others on this world.  I now have an understanding of what we truly are, IE a life force with many aspects to our existence, a part of all that is  Many people do not believe in living multiple lives, but after I was shown some of my past lives, I now know we are “reborn” after our stay in the realm with our Brothers.  My NDE occurred over a period of no more than 24 hours but the time I spent in this realm seemed to last for eternity, I had even forgotten of my physical body and when I was returned to it I was very distraught but I knew it was a part of my cycle of life as it was not the time for its demise.

Physical life is a wonderful gift and I can only surmise it is a learning experience for our souls, a purity of soul if you will.  Because mankind on this world is still in his infancy and still maturing in soul, that is the only explanation for the atrocities committed by this population.  Compassion and love for your fellow mankind will eventually change the populace of this planet, but it will not happen overnight.  I know this posting will not answer all of your questions, but maybe it will give you a glimpse at what we truly are and why we live this physical life.

“We are all things to all wholesome souls.”
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shox
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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2011, 04:03:48 AM »

Thanks for replying. I would love to know all I can about the afterlife, about what perfection really is. Here on earth, there is currently one prevailing philosophy, in my own words: "Adapt to circumstances, and DO WHAT WORKS." This maxim sits in the heart and mind of each individual who is caught up in the toils of the modern commercial-industrial society. I bring this up because most often Love does NOT work. Even throughout history, it did not work. Think of the ancient city of Constantinople, a city which stood for the values of Christ, being beseiged by the Muslims who stoods for the values of Mohamed ie of violence and murder. If nations and individuals were to apply the principles of unconditional love to their enemies, they will eventually go extinct, and their ideals will be erased from the memory of man. There are so many other instances which show that the way to prosperity is with the ideals of Machiavelli, NOT Christ. Love is weakness. Love is cowardice. Love is foolishness. Love is an unnatural repression of healthy instincts of self preservation. Love leads to degeneration. Love leads to pacifism and toleration of all nonsense. That is the reality on earth, and it always has been this way. All who apply the principles of love with genuine sincerity will be badly defeated in the battles of life because their enemies have not imprisoned themselves with such ideas as Love. This is EXACTLY what happened when ruthless China invaded Tibet and swept away the Buddhist culture which taught its people to practice non-violence towards its enemies. They were crushed and their heritage has been destroyed. Just think of the simple case of applying love to a predatory animal which does not understand human love, and expecting it to become loving in turn. Humans too behave in a predatory manner towards each other, especially when competition for survival is intense, such as when people live in a crowded world with diminishing opportunities. The highest wisdom that men can attain to on earth is not love but secular wisdom, such as vigilance, law and order, creating environmental conditions which do not foster civil strife.

Sam, you say the planet's problem with overpopulation is being resolved, for example, by China's one-child policy and by the West's decline in birthrate. But this a rather incomplete view. The reality of the situation is very grave indeed. The world population is NOT leveling off but increasing at about 80 million people per year. The damage being done to the planet is so severe and the consequences which will be reaped by posterity will be so calamitous, that the recent prognostications by climatologists, ecologists and biologists give one the impression that the remaining tenure of human life on earth could be something like 200-300 years, after which we WILL go extinct, simply because the conditions on earth will have become so harsh. The change in climate and ocean currents will be of such an immense order of magnitude that the conditions under which life evolved will simply disappear. It's true that man is blessed with the ability to invent tools and innovate and adapt, but the problems which are being created now are just TOO BIG to solve, and the conditions on earth will change too rapidly and too fundamentally for man to adapt. As a general rule, problems are much easier to create than to solve. The problem of planetary destruction has been several hundred years in the making. It will probably take THOUSANDS of years to repair the damage.

I mention overpopulation and planetary destruction because these problems are of the type which should bring each reflective individual to the question: What is the meaning of life? Why am I here? How long will I live in ignorance of my true nature and of my true purpose? If there was ever a time when we need communication from the spiritual realm, this is it. The future of the planet depends on it. If we receive no communication, humankind will continue on the current trajectory which is towards extinction. And that brings up another question in my mind: If extinction is near at hand (200 years is not a long time) then why bother living, and striving and leaving behind a legacy? It will all cease to matter. We will not even have time to graduate from our current state into unconditional love, if that is what perfection is.

These are some thoughts of mine.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 05:09:40 AM by shox » Logged
lrmcivor
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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2011, 06:48:00 AM »

shox:
Of all the species that have been on this planet, 99.9% have either gone extinct or drastically changed in adapting to the ever changing environment of Earth.  Mankind is no different, about 65,000 years ago the Earth had a drastic climate change, the last major ice age.  All of mankind (about 5,000,000) at the time resided in what is now the SE part of the African continent.  As the ice covered the northern hemisphere, the nurturing rains dried up in the southern hemisphere and the African continent had no rain for about 1,000 years.  The young population of Humans dwindled to less than 2,000 souls (a near extinction).

As a last ditch effort, most of the survivors of what has been referred to as the “hourglass effect” migrated north in an effort to survive.  This small group eventually split up chasing the rains and game animals of that time.  Slowly populating all continents of the world, (the Americas being the last a little over 14,000 years ago) thus minimizing the possibility of all of humanity being wiped out because of a calamity in any particular region such as the last great ice age (there was a small ice age about 13,000 years ago).

All physical things run their life cycle and then are returned to their basic composition.  This planet, this solar system, this galaxy and your physical body will eventually be reclaimed back into the Universe and eventually reborn as new stars, new solar systems, new galaxies and new physical bodies.

I have no idea what the fate of humans on this world is except to say eventually this world will cease to exist.  It is very unlikely mankind will go extinct on this planet as long as the planet is still viable for human habitation.  Meaning avoiding a catastrophic collision with an earth killing celestial object or other celestial malady.  If we avoid a celestial calamity, the Earth will be a viable planet for at least 1 ½ billion years until the Sun starts to run out of fuel and expands and encompasses the Earth.

When we tell you of our experiences with the “other side”, we can no more convince you of what we have experienced than trying to convince an atheist that what is written in the scriptures is accurate.  A fundamentalist Christian believes all that is written in the scriptures is fact, not because he has proof of it, but because he has faith in it and what it says.  I do know that some parts of the scriptures are not accurate as to what I learned and was told by these “supreme Entities” during my encounters.  You can only take on "faith" that what we say is the real truth.

I can only hope that at some period of your lifetime you have an “awakening” of soul, but if not during this physical life, upon your death you will come to understand what we have told you, and at that point you will understand the compassion and love we now feel within us.  I hope you find the peace within you.

“We are all things to all wholesome souls.”

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Sam
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« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2011, 10:52:06 AM »

Love is the most powerful thing there is in heaven and earth. You don't conquer others with love, you conquer yourself.

Then it is revealed all things.

Love
Sam
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. -- George Carlin
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