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Author Topic: Consciousness  (Read 6095 times)
Sam
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« on: June 25, 2008, 08:42:28 PM »

Well, it certainly seems that way, but the thinking is upside down. Skeptical scientists have a number of theories of how consciousness resides in the brain, even produced by the brain, but no evidence to back up any one of the theories. There has never been any physical evidence of consciousness found in the brain. No memory cells, no thought processes, or any physical evidence of any kind. The only, let me repeat that, the only measurement of consciousness is the electrical activity seen in the brain. No one can say whether this activity comes from the brain or is going to the brain. If part of the brain is damaged the electrical activity ceases in the damaged part. That would be normal for any receiver. If one channel port was damaged in a television when activity through that port would cease. The activity could only be restored by the intervention of a higher intelligence (man) to fix the port or switch the channel to some other port. Now in the brain it is common for the lost activity to be switched to another part of the brain indicating a higher intelligence (spirit).



We now have solid evidence that consciousness can exist without the brain and body through OBE, and NDE research. Consciousness is who you are, you are not a body, neither are you thoughts, memory, or emotions. You are also not your name, job, or achievements. You are something much greater than all these things. You are here to discover what and who you are as Dr. Jill Taylor did. It is not necessary to have a traumatic experience to discover self. It can be done through spiritual principals.



Spirituality is mankind, as far back into history and beyond there has been a belief in life after death, in enlightenment, and God. People by the billions have had spiritual experiences that totally changed their lives and let them realize who they were. Science will not even put a dent in those beliefs because the experiences are first-hand personal experiences. Science has only theories. I am sure Jill Taylor no longer looks at herself as before her experience.



I know it is very hard for those to understand who have not had the experience. Especially when they have been wrongly taught these experiences are hallucinations, or delusion, which I can assure you they are not. How do we know they are not, by the totally changed lives of the experiencers. Those who were hateful, and mean, become loving, and peaceful, full of joy and caring for others. No hallucination ever caused that to happen, only truth can do that to a person.



All of the questions posted here about consciousness can be fully answered by spiritual means. I know if you actually studied the near death experiences you would see them differently. I hope this helps someone.

 
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. -- George Carlin
RideTheWalrus
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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2008, 08:02:59 AM »

If a brain can have no activity, then spontaneously return to an active state, then consciousness cannot be a creation of the brain.

This can be logically proven.

While the brain is showing no activity (which from a skeptical point of view is no different from death), hypothetically what would happen if you replaced a small portion of the brain with an identical portion of the brain.  The identical portion of the brain would be composed of different matter, but exactly identical down to the last atom.

If consciousness is a function of the brain and our patient were to revive there should be no difference when they wake up.  An exactly identical physical structure down to the atomic level would mean even the memories would be preserved because from a skeptical point of view memories too are physical in nature.  As long as our patient was revived before the brain began to die.

So then, from a skeptical point of view what would happen if you were to replace the entirety of our patient's brain with new matter arranged exactly identical to the old brain before reviving our patient. 

If you say it's no longer the same patient because you replaced the entire brain, then you're stating that dead matter (non functioning brain) is somehow uniquely them.  From a skeptical point of view, how can dead matter be 'them.'  It should be nothing, right?  I'm sure you can see where that argument breaks down.

If you say the patient is the same patient, then how did consciousness make the jump from one brain to another?

Consciousness cannot be a construct of the brain if a brain shows no activity and returns to normal function

Also, to those who are interesting there's actually a cryogenic frog that does this every year.  During the winter it freezes itself for several months, all activity stops, then it thaws out, revives, and returns to life as normal.  Bizarre creature!
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 08:11:26 AM by RideTheWalrus » Logged
Joost
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« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2008, 05:39:37 PM »

The concept of consciousness being located outside the brain is supported by the following scientific experiment:
A group of people is asked to individually learn a random series of words or names by heart from a list. As the number of people who have learned the list increases, it gets easier for the ones who hav'nt learned it yet, to learn it. This result supports the idea of the existence of a collective consciousness or collective memory.

Imagine a world without consciousness; with plants and animals but without people, and without consciousness in these plants and animals, or even in the rocks and waters; with seasons coming and going, exististing for millions of years, what point would there be in the existence of such a world ? I think we all feel intuitively the answer to this question is: none. There would be no point in that. The next question that rises is: would such a world actually exist?. Again I think the intuitive answer would be: no. Without anything or anyone inside or outside that world to witness it, it would not exist. So existence starts with consciousness.

I think consciousness is a creative force. This is supported by the experiment I mentioned, but you can also feel it every day. Here in the western world you can feel how consciousness is allmost constantly focused on hurry an work, and work and hurry and business targets to be met. To me it often feels like a raging storm. I often have hard time to stay on my feet in this storm. I've allways felt it, even as a small kid, and I knew I was expected to join it one day, which frightened me. It can still frighten me, but now I've learned that it's in fact an illusion, going nowhere.
If all these people can create such an effect by focussing on these ugly things, just imagine what would happen if they would start focussing on the simple joys of life, or on the beauty of nature, or indeed on the love and beauty of the spiritual ? On the unspeakable greatness of God ? Just what would happen ??

Love and peace to you, Joost
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Sam
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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2008, 01:54:29 AM »

A miracle would happen. Thanks, thoroughly enjoyed your post.
 
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. -- George Carlin
RideTheWalrus
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« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2008, 10:21:14 AM »

There's a few more things that never made sense to me about consciousness being the brain:

First, what part of the brain is conscious?  If they say electric impulses are consciousness, well, that would mean electricity is conscious.  Electricity is simply electrons in motion, and if that was the case then existence would always exist in some form.

If consciousness was the physical matter and cells that make up the brain then you run into another paradox because every seven years or so every cell in our body is replaced.  Every seven years you're made of entirely different matter than you were before.  So, what part of that matter was supposed to be 'you'?  Also, how can dead inanimate matter somehow gain sentience?  Nobody can answer these questions.

Second, what caused you to be in conscious control in the first place, instead of somebody else?  In other words, why were you localized in your body instead of another body or none at all.  Without a 'mind' or something uniquely you beforehand to inhabit the body that would imply that the dead inanimate matter was somehow 'you' before you were born.  Or else, why did YOU become the observer?  This makes no sense whatsoever.

There are way too many logical problems with the brain being all there is.  So many materialists try to claim being on the logical side but I think it is us who stands on the side of logic.

It simply makes no sense for consciousness to be a creation of the brain.
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Sam
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« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2008, 06:35:13 PM »

You thought that out very good in my opinion, I especially like the being dead matter before consciousness. I would love to see a skeptic explain that. Thanks for the post.

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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. -- George Carlin
RideTheWalrus
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« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2008, 11:34:19 PM »

A link about people who have only 5% or less of their brain and live normal lives, some with above average IQs.
http://www.flatrock.org.nz/topics/science/is_the_brain_really_necessary.htm

« Last Edit: August 23, 2008, 11:36:12 PM by RideTheWalrus » Logged
Sam
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« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2008, 02:11:36 AM »

If it were possible to show a large screen television to scientists of the nineteenth century they would, to a man, believe the pictures on the screen were produced locally in the television, probably by some projection device. Being scientists they would want to dismantle the television to see how it works. But when they take it apart there would be not one picture or sound of what they saw on the screen. There would be no projection device, no film, camera or any other device they could recognize. They would not know about the sending, receiving nature of producing the pictures on the screen. At this point what do you think they would do.

Now the brain is only a receiving device for consciousness to send instructions to the body. It is an interface. Here scientists believed the brain somehow produced the consciousness that in turn controlled the body. Here again they dismantled the body and brain to look for this consciousness. Here again they found nothing in the brain that even remotely resembled a thought, or memory, or emotions, or logic, or anything else that could be deemed consciousness. The only thing they found in the brain was electrical activity. An attempt to map this electrical activity has not worked very well at all. After studing the brain for over 100 years and not finding a consciousness what do you think they should do.

Some scientists have done something different, they started studying out of body and near death experiences, and they found out consciousness can live outside of the brain and body. There are larger studies on the way. Some scientists have quit studying the brain and started studying the nature of consciousness and have evidence consciousness is not local to the brain any more than the sounds and pictures are local to television.

Science marches on.
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. -- George Carlin
dean3333
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« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2008, 06:58:37 AM »

Some people on this forum may have read comments regarding the holographic universe theory. The theory can be best explained as follows, which I'm quoting from http://www.crystalinks.com/holographic.html.

" Aspect and his team discovered that under certain circumstances subatomic particles such as electrons are able to instantaneously communicate with each other regardless of the distance separating them. It doesn't matter whether they are 10 feet or 10 billion miles apart. Somehow each particle always seems to know what the other is doing. The problem with this feat is that it violates Einstein's long-held tenet that no communication can travel faster than the speed of light."

PMH Atwater's book, "We Live Forever" discusses the phenomena of the brain being a tuning device that taps into the spiritual dimension which many of us report as intuition or psychic abilities. Some NDE survivors talk about how many of the world's problems are dealt with and solved in the spiritual world, and then as man is ready, those solutions present themselves. This was also stated in Anthony Borgia's writings when he supposedly received messages from beyond the grave, from a Catholic priest friend named Robert Hugh Benson.

During many NDE experiences, people report a life review, which they experience not only specific aspects of their life, but also see and feel the impact of those experiences from the other person's viewpoint. This is done without a physical brain present, only consciousness.

The holographic universe theory, Atwater's description of the brain as a tuning device, and the life review started me postulating about memory and or thought activity not necessarily residing in the brain but at the spiritual level instead. Is it possible that our brains "tune-in" to the proper frequency of memory activity? Is it possible that those who are developmentally disabled may have brains that are not tuned properly and have difficulty receiving transmissions from the spiritual dimension, and therefore have lower thought processes and memories? Why is that some disabled individuals are savants (i.e. have one or more areas of expertise, ability or brilliance that are in contrast with the individual's overall limitations, such as the character of Rainman who could count cards very quickly)? Could it be that their brains are tuned and wired so they can accomplish these brilliant activities?

If true, this could explain why the life review is possible and why we can relive life experiences from all points of view. One could look at this as if the spiritual dimension was a giant "hard drive" that captured all thought activity and was able to play it back when required.

I have no idea if what I'm postulating is even remotely true, but it is an interesting theory and would be truly remarkable if somehow validated.
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Miracles do not happen in contradiction to nature, but only in contradiction to that which is known to us in nature.
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Sam
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« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2008, 06:51:03 PM »

I think you understand it well. I am not sure anyone knows exactly how consciousness communicates with the brain, just that it does. Welcome to the board.

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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. -- George Carlin
Gabs
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« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2008, 07:45:06 AM »

dean3333-Is it possible that those who are developmentally disabled may have brains that are not tuned properly and have difficulty receiving transmissions from the spiritual dimension, and therefore have lower thought processes and memories?

Hey dean3333, I reckon even though they may be disabled, I'm lead to believe that some may have little difficulty receiving spiritual transmissions from higher dimensions...Classic example Grandma Chandra, a beautiful handicapped woman and awesome Lightworker, who created the pyramidal omni dimensional manifestation chamber & claims she is an Ascended Master from the 12th dimension or aeon. With this in mind, maybe this is a result of what happens when the physical limitations of the body are not enough to fully encompass an entity such as Chandra, thus  disharmony within the physical element becomes the result? Bit like a large foot having to squeeze into a small shoe size that often brings all sorts of discomfort. :-\

Love and Light
Gabs  ;D   
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lrmcivor
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« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2011, 05:39:38 AM »

Consciousness is the soul! In physical form our souls interact with our physical brain, however no one can explain why so many individuals who have left their physical bodies (OBE, NDE) can have memories and complete thought process, and in almost all cases a change in spirit.  The skeptics are those who have not been fortunate to have experienced these fantastic voyages!   
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